Comments on: The Indo Project @ Jakarta Post http://dutcheastindies.web.id/the-indo-project-jakarta-post Website dedicated to Dutch-Indonesian Community Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:15:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Lorna Oor-Mackun http://dutcheastindies.web.id/the-indo-project-jakarta-post/comment-page-1#comment-155 Lorna Oor-Mackun Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:43:48 +0000 http://dutcheastindies.web.id/?p=127#comment-155 I am so glad that someone is going to tell the story finally. I am 55 now and I remember my parents talking about those days and how awful it was for them. My parents spent 19 months in a prison camp on Java. When I was little I would listen to the stories my parents and their friends would tell about horrific conditions, the torture they and their family members endured. I also remember some good things about being cared for by a nanny (Tipa). My parents were pretty well off then, but then something happened and we had to leave and move to this cold place were there was snow. I remember moving from our beautiful home on a tropical island then crammed into this small 3 room shack where people were mean to us. I was 5 yrs old and remember going to school with my older brother and sister and we had to walk through this alley way and the dutch children would spit on us and call us all kinds of names. We stayed there until my little brother was born (1yr) and they moved us into a house which was clean and had nice furniture, we went to a different school where we were treated better but not much. Then we move to the United States and we have been here since 1961. My parents did leave behind alot. My parents owned eight homes and I can't remember the rest. But I remember my father saying they had to leave because he did not want to change his religion to Muslim and did not want to change his name. That the government gave them a choice to accept the changes or get out, so we left everything behind and came to the USA. I would really like to know more about this movie that is being made. I would love for someone to talk to my father Harry E. Oor. My dad is 86 yrs old now and still remembers everything about those days like it was yesterday. Lorna I am so glad that someone is going to tell the story finally. I am 55 now and I remember my parents talking about those days and how awful it was for them. My parents spent 19 months in a prison camp on Java. When I was little I would listen to the stories my parents and their friends would tell about horrific conditions, the torture they and their family members endured. I also remember some good things about being cared for by a nanny (Tipa). My parents were pretty well off then, but then something happened and we had to leave and move to this cold place were there was snow. I remember moving from our beautiful home on a tropical island then crammed into this small 3 room shack where people were mean to us. I was 5 yrs old and remember going to school with my older brother and sister and we had to walk through this alley way and the dutch children would spit on us and call us all kinds of names. We stayed there until my little brother was born (1yr) and they moved us into a house which was clean and had nice furniture, we went to a different school where we were treated better but not much. Then we move to the United States and we have been here since 1961. My parents did leave behind alot. My parents owned eight homes and I can’t remember the rest. But I remember my father saying they had to leave because he did not want to change his religion to Muslim and did not want to change his name. That the government gave them a choice to accept the changes or get out, so we left everything behind and came to the USA.
I would really like to know more about this movie that is being made. I would love for someone to talk to my father Harry E. Oor. My dad is 86 yrs old now and still remembers everything about those days like it was yesterday.
Lorna

]]> By: Michel de Wilde http://dutcheastindies.web.id/the-indo-project-jakarta-post/comment-page-1#comment-139 Michel de Wilde Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:52:27 +0000 http://dutcheastindies.web.id/?p=127#comment-139 Colson, thank you for sharing your experience. It seems different indo received treatment, or you are one of these people who didn't have racial prejudice toward the Indo. ;) But I think I have read from several literatures that the lower class Indos received greater discrimination from the totok (pureblood dutch) because of their broken dutch. During east indies, Dutch only was taught to the middle class, and there are many indo lived in lower class society... the so called "bule item" (black western). My oma was probably in middle class because all her sisters speak dutch, shame that she and her husband (my opa was dutch-educated chinese) didn't inherit it to her children... for your question: (a) why the integration of Indo’s in Dutch society turned out so well ( in contrast to the present failure of integration of North African immigrants) socialy, culturally and economically -> that's what I also wanted to know. the integration of Indo and dutch reminds me of chinese to Indonesia, except there are less racial issues (well... I have never heard news about Dutch vs Indo conflict in Netherands if there were any). How about the Indo in netherlands? Was there any mention of Indo in Dutch history book? the indo's history is technically erased from indonesia history line, and the government only included the story of Indo who gave up their indo identity and took Indonesia's identity. Colson, thank you for sharing your experience.

It seems different indo received treatment, or you are one of these people who didn’t have racial prejudice toward the Indo. ;)

But I think I have read from several literatures that the lower class Indos received greater discrimination from the totok (pureblood dutch) because of their broken dutch.

During east indies, Dutch only was taught to the middle class, and there are many indo lived in lower class society… the so called “bule item” (black western). My oma was probably in middle class because all her sisters speak dutch, shame that she and her husband (my opa was dutch-educated chinese) didn’t inherit it to her children…

for your question:
(a) why the integration of Indo’s in Dutch society turned out so well ( in contrast to the present failure of integration of North African immigrants) socialy, culturally and economically -> that’s what I also wanted to know. the integration of Indo and dutch reminds me of chinese to Indonesia, except there are less racial issues (well… I have never heard news about Dutch vs Indo conflict in Netherands if there were any).

How about the Indo in netherlands? Was there any mention of Indo in Dutch history book? the indo’s history is technically erased from indonesia history line, and the government only included the story of Indo who gave up their indo identity and took Indonesia’s identity.

]]> By: colson http://dutcheastindies.web.id/the-indo-project-jakarta-post/comment-page-1#comment-138 colson Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:07:17 +0000 http://dutcheastindies.web.id/?p=127#comment-138 As this ('the process of repatriating and integrating' in the years after after august '45 - 'bersiap'- and after '56 - after nationalizing companies and expelling by Soekarno- is a subject I watch from pretty close distance, I daresay. I married an Indo girl and almost all my friends from when I was 10 years old up, were born in Indonesia( well,in Nederlands Oost Indië). (a)This ("Dutch society was not ready for an influx of postwar Eurasians") is absolutely right. The society was struggling to get back on it's economical feet after total ruin in WWII. The official policies were aiming at emigration (especiallyto Canada, Australia and New Zealand). So immigration of tens of thousands from Indonesia was a major problem. (b) but this ("they faced racial issues") I doubt very much. My wife for instance recalls she once was insulted by a boy calling her "blauwe" - which is a racial innuendo indeed. Racism is never far away at any time in any society. Yet generally speaking the fifties were about hypocrisy, narrowmindedness and prejudices but not about racial issues at all. By comparison the US was more racist by far in comparison to North West Europe in those years - hardly a reason for coloured people to go there. Yet I think the project is promising, fascinating and very interesting. I wonder if it also deals with questions like: (a) why the integration of Indo's in Dutch society turned out so well ( in contrast to the present failure of integration of North African immigrants) socialy, culturally and economically (b) what has happened socially, culturally and economically to second and third generation Indo's who went to the US ( California and Florida especially). As this (‘the process of repatriating and integrating’ in the years after after august ’45 – ‘bersiap’- and after ’56 – after nationalizing companies and expelling by Soekarno- is a subject I watch from pretty close distance, I daresay. I married an Indo girl and almost all my friends from when I was 10 years old up, were born in Indonesia( well,in Nederlands Oost Indië).

(a)This (“Dutch society was not ready for an influx of postwar Eurasians”) is absolutely right. The society was struggling to get back on it’s economical feet after total ruin in WWII. The official policies were aiming at emigration (especiallyto Canada, Australia and New Zealand). So immigration of tens of thousands from Indonesia was a major problem.

(b) but this (“they faced racial issues”) I doubt very much. My wife for instance recalls she once was insulted by a boy calling her “blauwe” – which is a racial innuendo indeed. Racism is never far away at any time in any society. Yet generally speaking the fifties were about hypocrisy, narrowmindedness and prejudices but not about racial issues at all. By comparison the US was more racist by far in comparison to North West Europe in those years – hardly a reason for coloured people to go there.

Yet I think the project is promising, fascinating and very interesting. I wonder if it also deals with questions like:

(a) why the integration of Indo’s in Dutch society turned out so well ( in contrast to the present failure of integration of North African immigrants) socialy, culturally and economically

(b) what has happened socially, culturally and economically to second and third generation Indo’s who went to the US ( California and Florida especially).

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